Further news on Driving Licences for over-60s

The Dog Walker · Post by **The Dog Walker** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 8:23 am

Yesterday, I was with a friend who, a few days ago, went with his wife, (both over 60) to renew their driving licences. They had let their Residency lapse in April, but had the necessary paperwork as recommended. However, in the Licensing Office, they were told that everything had changed, and that they now needed Residency, so must go to Lefkosa and renew, before they could apply for Driving Licences.
Has anybody else experienced this, and what do BRS and like bodies think about it? Maybe Trevor will have some information, but it certainly needs clarification for all those who've let their residency lapse, or are considering doing so!

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 8:36 am

I hope she took the person's name. That's what I was told by BRS a couple of years ago. Always ask for their name. Then they, or another office, can check it.

I asked my policeman friend about this and he says its not true.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 9:39 am

Thanks for that Dog Walker. I think this is possibly another instance of confusion because it would appear that none of this Over 60's privileges are written down.

I don't know about current regulations on this, but I do know years ago when Alan and I went to renew our licences - I wanted 10 and he wanted 5, we were told by thekyrenia Office that we cul dehav eonly one! Hmm... Someone whispered in my ear to go to Lefkosia, which I did, and I got my 10 and he got his 5. That must have been about 6 years ago. So no doubt all is now changed regarding length of term, but it does show how the offices vary in what they know. Why not try Lefkosia office and if you get the same response there, then shout a bit louder. It could be that Lefkosia will honour what others seem to be able to btain, namkely a Driving Licence with a muhtar's letter confirming residency.

Good luck.

harita · Post by **harita** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 11:28 am

When we asked at immigration did we need to renew residency as we are over 60 .. The answer was no ..
We then asked about driving licences .. Two weeks before driving licence is due, renew residency for 6 months 125TL was the reply ..
Someone posted they had obtained their driving licence with a Muctars letter ..
Our driving licences still have 2 years to run .. Unless things change we will renew our residency for 6 months in 2016 ..

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 12:58 pm

Bottom line until the change re TRNC licences not requiring residency is enshrined in law it's up for grabs and personally I will be renewing residency ad infinitum... Even if you do manage to get al licence - what's the legal position if you have an accident with a local who's lawyer argues that as a non-resident your licence is invalid.... can of worms in my mind... common sense ought to prevail but then this is Cyprus. YHBW.

TheSaints · Post by **TheSaints** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 2:58 pm

Same here a friend and his wife both over 60 tried to renew thiers a few weeks ago, same scenario they had let thier temp residency lapse and were refused new driving licences but were not told the reason why.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 3:29 pm

Here we go again,left and right hand!!!!!Has anyone any ideas on the rules of this country? Answer on a post card, please. I am over 60 (well over) and am about to" waste my money" again and renew my residency in a few weeks!!!

jen · Post by **jen** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 3:47 pm

Is peace of mind a waste of money? Answers on a postage stamp please

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 4:34 pm

Yes agree!!!!! £1.50 a week to live here legally is disgusting, outright theft, should be banned, its almost as much as a cup of coffee!!!!! Total waste of money, think I'll go back to UK and get mugged for free.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 4:56 pm

I'll come with you, I don't think!!!!

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 6:01 pm

Interesting isn't it - just as someone think s the question of theprivilege of over 60's residency (or non) is solved, and the matter of driving licences is ironed out, it lal raises its head again.

Maybe BRS could write something as they do state that all is well on this front, because they have been told. Is there now an update, or a turn about face>????

Well, I am happy to be one of the clan who prefer to have everything in w riting before I believe it could possibly be law. As one who spends a small fortune in Gloria Jean indulging my addiction to coffee, I feel that my 200tl a year to stay here hassle free is well worth it for peace of mind, and a heck of a lot less than my coffee addiction.

at the end of the day, it is choices.

But it would be good if BRS oculd talk to a Minister at the Government and put in writin g what the minister says as being cut in stone.

Any chance????

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 6:32 pm

Marion, 2 chances: None or anyones. What update from BRS on expat citizinship? Sorry, off topic - I am away to the naughty step.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 6:55 pm

Yes Tom, off topic indeed! But I can understand why you are mentioning it.

But for now (and I am VERY interested in citizenship and hope that the government will make announcements to thep;ublic themselves, but for now, it is just that it would be good if BRS commente d on this, although to be fair, they might already have done on their webh site. I confess I havenot looked. So maybe I should do that now as to be fair, they DO communicate through their own web site.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 7:11 pm

Well, I did have a look at the BRS site to see if there was anything new. Unfortunatley I could not access the members page, for although I had a password already on computer and put in my members number, I got this message "Username and password do not match or you do not have an account yet."

Perhaps someone else who is a BRS member could take a look. Otherwise, hopefully someone who is BRS committee cdould post as to why there seems to be the problem of differing responses to getting a driving licence. And/or is there anyone who is over 60 who has applied for a Driving Licence without having a residency stamp?

Bonnie · Post by **Bonnie** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 6:04 am

Marions I'm sure I've read posts on here of folk renewing their driving licenses without residency, Just with a muchtars letter confirming their address.
Maybe it's pot luck, who you see on the day
No interest in citizenship but do like to renew my drivers license with the minimum of hassle
I'm in the same camp as yourself & Owl lady. Though well over 60 I prefer to "waste my money" to feel safe & secure, with all my i's dotted and t's crossed.
Matter of choice really.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 6:39 am

For those of you who are not renewing your residency and still driving, please check your insurance policies as a friend of mine found out he had to be a resident for the policy to be valid.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 7:12 am

Marions wrote: Perhaps someone else who is a BRS member could take a look. Otherwise, hopefully someone who is BRS committee cdould post as to why there seems to be the problem of differing responses to getting a driving licence.

Therein lies the rub!
Unless it's made law it can't be relied upon... easements of this nature have a particularly fickle history of adherence here... whether or not the BRS thinks it's got a gentleman's agreement or not is quite frankly of no relevance - as those people paid to administer the law only need quote the regulations which have the force of law which the so-called easement does not...
It would be lovely if these initiatives could be relied upon but history here tells us they can't. Why so many expats are willing to take these things at face value and let their residency lapse is a matter for them but I can't see the value in letting yourself and get into the position of not complying with the law as it stands - OK, you'll be fine until something goes wrong and then... well, then the police, the courts, your own insurance company etc. etc. will use it as an excuse to bring the law down on you like a ton of bricks and those who advocated letting your residency lapse will be nowhere to be seen!
I hate to say I told you so but I've been saying exactly this ever since the easement was first mooted... Unless they make it law it's not reliable and if it's not reliable then it's of no benefit - it serves only to reduce the number officially registered expats whose human rights can be ignored - as officially they don't exist....

the butlers wife · Post by **the butlers wife** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 7:32 am

In June both my husband and I renewed our driving licenses with out residency and only a mukters letter. We decided
not to renew our residencies after twice being told by two different people at crossings at Pyla and and Metahan that we no longer needed too. This is our choice and if a law comes in that says we must have residency we will go and get it again. We
don't lose any sleep over the fact we don't have it. We have been over the border and I have left the country without any problems.

Our friends also decided not to renew their residencies and last week they applied for new driving licenses albeit at Famagusta and they were processed without any problem with just a mukters letter. I think the person who had problems, should ask to see someone else at the tax office.

The butlers wife

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 8:56 am

No updated info on BRS site, still says if you have any problems get the persons name and report it to them! Marion, do you have a numbered code now instead of a lettered password, That may be your problem re access to members pages? If you want more info call me!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 9:42 am

the butlers wife wrote: This is our choice and if a law comes in that says we must have residency we will go and get it again. The butlers wife

Ah but the law does say you need it... it's only the easement (that is not law) that says you don't need it - and when it suits them to accept or deny this easement is the pitfall..... you are at the mercy of interpretation - you are not worried - that's fine but I'm not going to encourage anybody to rely on this being OK....

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 9:48 am

This all reminds me of a line in my old school song "Each as on his sole head, failure or succeeder..............."

Me, I prefer to try to succeed. If the law is a ass, I still go with the law. But fo r many fold it doe s not matter. For me some kind of security matters. We do't have a home elsewhere, nor relatives we can go to live with, nor money to buy the ideal home elsewhere, so....................

Thanks for advice Owl Lady, but I was just being curious as to a direction I could send folk to find answers.

Bit like when we first went to Australia and were renting on a six monthly basis. It did not matter, but when we went there full time we needed something more permanent,, I would never have taken any chances. Same here - but that is OUR choice.

I think the important thing here is that whatever choice we may make for ourselves, it is very important not to whine if it does not turn out quite the way we hoped.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 10:35 am

It is strange to note that every time there is an election, be it local or national, things seem to change again - wonder if this is how it all gets paid for???

Defensive driving is good for your health but then again, so is defensive living!!!!!

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 11:15 am

Having a stamp in your passport doesnt make you a resident. If you read it it says state of residency then next to it Temporary visitor.So if you live here full time as I do I regard myself as a resident 12years is a very long visit lol.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 1:14 pm

I agree Deniz1 only lived here permanently for 9 years (2 trips to UK and last), but first came in 1972 before half the government were even born!! I do object to still being a temporary visitor.

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 2:28 pm

I landed here in 2003 never been back to the uk so if thats not being a resident I dont know what is.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 6:48 am

Deniz1 wrote:I landed here in 2003 never been back to the uk so if thats not being a resident I dont know what is.

If you don't have a stamp in your passport you are neither - you are an illegal immigrant... and that's the law.

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 8:01 am

After having looked at all the above posts i have decided to renew my residency when it expires on the 29th of Aug. As my driving licence also runs out next april i do not think it is worth the risk of not doing the residency.
Does anyone know when i can go to Lefkosia to renew? is there a window of time either before or after the expiration date? And just to confirm, i am 64 so no longer need to go to the police station, i can go directly to Immigration with a Mukhtars letter and my passport (with my wallet of course!!) is that all i need?

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 8:48 am

bank statements and photo copies of your passport back page and visa page and contract or deeds

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 8:52 am

It is amusing to try to decide just WHAT we are - i.e. those with a stmap in their passports which states Temporary Visitor, but which enables the holder of the passport to reside in Northern Cyprus legally. Sol is it a case of 'lost in translation'. As far as I am concerned, I reside here, and the relative noun is 'resident', so that makes ma a 'resident'. But I still prefer any appellation to that which I had when I had permission to stay in the South. I sitllo have, to this day, my identity card on the front of which in large letters is written the word 'A L I E N'. No further comment.

TRNCVaughan · Post by **TRNCVaughan** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 9:16 am

Take a look at your little pink/blue id card - What do you think Yabanci means.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 9:39 am

#According to my dictionary it is 'foreigner' NOT Alien. If one wants to split hairs, it could be claimed that most people here are foreigners, and most in |U.K are foreigners, but they are certainly not aliens in the sci fi sense, and if one uses the word 'alienate' maybe that is what they are tyring to do to people who do not have native blood in them. But who knows. @We are all so Heinz 57 that it could be we are in fact all one huge race! (which many people believe anyway.)

BOERBOEL · Post by **BOERBOEL** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 9:43 am

I have just looked at the BRS page and the agreement they made for over 60's is quoted as:

1. Muhtars letter to confirm your residency (Ensure that any change of address is made on this letter)
2. Passport
3. Blue or Pink Residency registration card
4. Copy of Bank Statement to confirm your income ( Internet print-out is acceptable )
The only addition to this requirement is a change of address since your last renewal. If that is the case a copy of your house contract, kocan or rental agreement, with the new address, if appropriate, will have to be shown.

You also have to fill in a white form which is given at immigration but is the same form that was always filled in at the Police Station when you gave them all your other documents.

When we go in a few weeks, this is all we will take and if asked for more will quote BRS arrangement with Government as this is what they recommend you should do.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 10:04 am

However for driving licences - even though they think they have an agreement - quoting the BRS won't cut it at the driving licence office if they don't see it that way...... I'm utterly amazed at the number of people who are taken in by the 'promises' of this easement who then don't or won't understand that, 'that which is given can be taken away' unless the law pertaining is changed.... This will all come to a head when an expat ends-up in court charged with a driving offence and does not have a 'legal' driving licence because they are not officially legal here, not having obtained a stamp in their passport.... 'Be seen be safe!'
I realise the post above is quoting the docs required for residency....

stellasstar1 · Post by **stellasstar1** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 10:13 am

No one has mentioned the people that have houses and cars here, but just come for holidays. Most don't have a temporary residency stamp in their passports, and as far as I am aware, they can drive on their English licences, so why can't us over 60's that don't have residency stamps anymore, drive on our English licences.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 10:19 am

there WULD SEEMK TO BE A LOGIC THAT IF YOU ARE VISITING (ALBEIT STYAING IN YOUR OWN APARTMENT OR VILLA) THAT YOU CAN DRIVE ON A bRITISH LICENCE FOR THE PERMITTED DURATION. nOT SURE HOW LONG - 3 MONTHS? 6 MONTHS?: (sorry, caps stuck again). It could be that people are doing that. You would need to consult the LAW on this one. You could ask the BRS, but better to get a contact in the Gov and ask them and get the answer in writing. I am sure it is somewhere on the rules for visitors.

Can anyone throw light on this one as well. Very valid point.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 10:54 am

stellasstar1 wrote:No one has mentioned the people that have houses and cars here, but just come for holidays. Most don't have a temporary residency stamp in their passports, and as far as I am aware, they can drive on their English licences, so why can't us over 60's that don't have residency stamps anymore, drive on our English licences.

Well it's a can of worms.... no matter whether you are over 60 or under (me - just) the law states that after you have been here for a certain period you must apply for temporary residency 'visitor' status. Those who don't reside here full-time must leave and obtain temp permission to stay every 90 days.... They can drive on their UK licences
They haven't changed the law.
If they do it may well be that once your have done your time and are over 60 they will make it official by changing the law but until they do - you are taking a risk, that some consider a risk worth taking, to let their residency lapse and apply for a TRNC Driver's Licence.

Now this is all well and good until it's tested in a court of law - then no hearsay of easements will apply (even if we all think they should) because the other party's lawyer will hold that you - yes you - should not be on the road here because:-
1. Your UK driver's licence is invalid if you don't reside there... i.e. you are here not there - and
2. Your TRNC licence is invalid if you don't have a residency stamp in your passport (because that's what the law says....)

We know it's unfair but if I was the lawyer acting for a Cypriot that's what I would argue.....

Guess who's gonna win?

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 10:56 am

In answer to Geoff re when to renew, this is taken from BRS website:

Applications for renewal should be made between 30 and 15 days before the permit expires. Don't let your permit expire: there are hefty fines for doing so!

IMPORTANT

PLEASE NOTE THAT ANYONE WHO WILL BE ABSENT FROM THE TRNC AT THE TIME THEIR RESIDENCY IS DUE, MUST VISIT IMMIGRATION IN LEFKOSA BEFORE LEAVING THE COUNTRY AND ADVISE THEM OF LIKELY TIME THEY WILL BE AWAY, SO THAT THE AUTHORITIES CAN MAKE A SYSTEM ENTRY TO THAT EFFECT.

If your permit has expired, don't leave the TRNC without renewing it. In emergencies, renewal can be expedited.

Marion - you are allowed to drive on your UK licence for 3 months before you must get a TRNC licence which you are unable to get, so it appears, without residency. I've never been clear if the 3 months allowed is per trip or on first trip only, I'm guessing the former but it would be interesting to see the insurance companies interpretation of this.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 11:10 am

Thanks Come on Aylin. It is not a problem for me. I have a UK licence, but drive here on a TRNC one. When I first came 14 years ago, I stayed for 3 months and of course used the U.K. licence. I did the same thing for two further years, and hired a car, so maybe if it is 90 day sin any one YEAR it is O.K. I would think to disappear for a few days and come back and continue driving on your U.K licence would be pushing the boat out a bit! Actually when I was first here I had an Australian driving licence as wlel, but did not use that for hiring a car.

I believe at one stage it was six months, but very much a '[one off' thing.

I would not want to take a chance just to save a couple of hundred lira and a couple of hours o fmy time. I appreciate I am a guest (or a foreigner, of a visitor or an alien!) but prefer to go along with St.Ambrose who said 'If you should find yourself at Rome, then do as the Romans do' and considering he was Italian, and in his own country, Ithink that saying aplies even more to us.

Choices, choices, choices. But for me, there is only one! Try to follow their written laws!

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 11:24 am

I look at it as I'm starting at a disadvantage here as a yabanci so it's best to do everything I can to weigh things in my favour. If that seems cynical I'm afraid it's based on 9 years experience.

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 11:31 am

Thanks BOERBOEL and come_on_aylin for the info. Guess i had better get my skates on and get things organised.

Geoff.

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Tue 05 Aug 2014 1:05 pm

Yabanci also means stranger. I was told by my next door neighbour who is a policeman you can use a uk licence for 3 months only.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 9:40 am

Today from BRS
"Following calls from a number of members regarding over 60’s TRNC driving licence renewal who were informed that the law had changed and that a muhtar’s letter instead of the residency stamp was no longer acceptable.
The BRS Chairman, who was involved in this decision some 12 months ago, visited the driving licence office this week. He was reassured that there was no change to this renewal procedure for those over 60’s without a residency stamp in their passport. In future, should anyone be informed otherwise please ask for Ibrahim, the manager, and mention David’s name. A letter for BRS members can be downloaded from the website and presented should this be necessary."

The law has not changed but they haven't changed to law to make this easement legal..... so they are right but they are wrong (if you get my drift)

So my position is this.... although this would seem to be the go-ahead to not bother with residency renewal when over 60 - the legality of this is still untested in a court of law - until they actually change the law it's a bit of a risk.... as that ( a court of law) is where the legality of driving on a TRNC driving licence with no residency to back it up will ultimately tell us if this is in fact truly a benefit or a minefield....

I'm seriously worried that someone unsuspecting will fall foul of this and those in authority who gave the current OK will walk away saying it's not their problem...

harita · Post by **harita** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 10:18 am

Groucho .. Keep taking the tablets ..
Your KKTC driving licence is not only valid here, but also in the UK for up to 90 days ..
Regarding insurance, whoever is driving the car, providing they hold a driving licence, UK, KKTC or any other will be insured with the owners permission & don't need to be a resident ..

If you had an accident & finished up in court, residency or not .. By the cypriot logic it will be your fault ..
If you hadn't been on the road there would not have been an accident !!!!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 10:24 am

Begs the question why don't they change the law.....? If it's to be legally enforceable - make it so - if not - don't pretend it is....

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 10:36 am

Told face to face by Hassan in Girne Police Station On Thursday, if no residency stamp in passport then TRNC driving licence not valid by law! But what would he know being just a policeman? With the peace talks crashed and Erdowan about to be elected "King" of Turkey how long will he suffer the continual drain on Turkish funding to waste on the TRNC? Russia and Turkey are big buddies, Russia "annexed" Crimea, who would stop Turkey formally "annexing" TRNC? What are the residency and driving licence laws in Turkey? Just a few personal thoughts!!

harita · Post by **harita** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 10:51 am

waddo .. If you are over 60 you don't need a residency stamp in your passport ..
As told by immigration in Lefkosa ..

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 11:04 am

Harita, I am over 60, but I drive, so I do need a residency stamp, as told by the Police! Like it or not - that is the law!!! Until the law is changed you can carry on as you wish and trust that you remain insured! Go on, give it a try, with no residency stamp in your passport just nudge into the back of a police car and see what happens! It is called "Press To Test"!

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 11:09 am

E-mail just received from the BRS this morning. The rules for renewing driving licence have NOT changed and a Muhtar's letter is still acceptable. Chairman (David Brown) has visited the office for confirmation. Any problems ask to speak to the office manager, Ibrahim, and mention David's name
See dippergirl's posting today re BRS.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 11:59 am

I hope the information from the BRS included a copy of the new rule/law so it could be confirmed in court, should the need ever arise? Or is it just the managers word that everyone is reliant upon and of course he will remain in post forever!

harita · Post by **harita** » Sun 10 Aug 2014 1:47 pm

waddo .. Can you copy & paste these rules/laws .. Or is it just what someone tells you ..

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