What is a fair mark up.

[elizabeth]

I have been known to partake in an odd glass of wine when out in a restaurant, I quite like Yakut red, on sale today at Atakara for 14.40 per bottle. Last week we visited a popular restaurant with friends, on checking the wine list we saw Yakut was available, but it was priced at 38tl per bottle. Now I am no mathematician but that is over 150% mark up on one bottle of wine, and I would imagine if they buy in bulk they probably get it cheaper by the dozen, am I being a tight git or is that a very large profit,incidentally we didn't order the wine.

[Keithcaley]

Excessive markup? I don't know - but I do know that it's not unusual.

A couple of years ago, I was in a new-ish bar/diner with some friends, and they were quite impressed that a bottle of white Angora wine was listed at 'only' 20 TL. I pointed out to them that (at that time) the very same wine was on sale for 8 TL in most supermarkets, but they said that they were used to paying up to 24 TL, and that in a 'decent' restaurant it could be 28 TL or more.

With 'Local' spirits, you can pay 5 TL for a measure, and even allowing for the 'very generous' measures, you should get around 12 from a bottle that costs 7 TL in the supermarket. I'm not even going to start to calculate that markup! - I do realise that you get a splash of local mixer thrown in as well - plus the ice!

At one time, most places charged 5 TL for a 50cl Efes, when the wholesale price was just under 2 TL - so it seems as though, if you want to consume your alcohol in convivial surroundings, you have to pay for the establishment to stay open all day, customers or not, just waiting for your pleasure...

[erol]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525098 ... -wine.html#

[PoshinDevon]

Just like to say a restaurant/bar etc will be more concerned about their margin..... Not the mark up- there is a difference which influences their profit. A quick Google will give an explanation of the difference!

[Keithcaley]

Just like to say a restaurant/bar etc will be more concerned about their margin..... Not the mark up- there is a difference which influences their profit. A quick Google will give an explanation of the difference!

I agree with the sentiment that they should be more concerned at making a reasonable amount on each bottle of wine that they sell, in order to cover costs and maintain profitability, but the mark up % seems to remain constant regardless of price...

Or were you meaning something else?

[PoshinDevon]

Not being resident in the TRNC will take on board that the mark up seems to be the same....all of the time but any business wether they realise it or not should be concentrating on the margin...plenty of explanations around the link is just one of them.

http://www.buildingtrade.org.uk/article ... argin.html

Of course we would expect any bar/restaurant buying in bulk should be able to get a far better deal that the average punter who will see a bottle of wine for sale in a supermarket at x price.....suppose its all about local competition and what the local market will take.

[andrew4232]

running a business is not cheap here i know that we pay about 350 per person per month sigorta, about 250/300 per month account fees and lecky bills bills of at least 600/700 per month plus wages plus KDV Plus rents and business taxes before we even open the door and were only a small business

[Royalcorpsoftranspor]

What do you do then Andrew.

[DAVPAT]

I DO know he doesnt sell wax jackets or green wellies!!!!

[foodie]

I do know that Andrew is 100% right. No wonder so many restaurants, cafes, bars and small businesses keep chopping and changing hands. As he said they have so many overheads before they even open the doors. Like myself, I cannot afford to go out as often as I used to but when I do I appreciate how a lot struggle to keep your custom. So stick to quality instead of quantity and enjoy your evenings out.

[andrew4232]

there aint much call for them at this time of year but come the dark winter months they will be fighting for them

[Jonnie]

To me it all depends on what you get with your mark up. Go to a good venue with nice decor, comfortable seating, good quality tableware napery etc, with clean loos hot water soap, nice towels to dry your hands on, nice glasses to drink from I would expect to pay more than I would in a place with plastic chairs, paper napkins, plastic tables etc etc

It is just the same in the UK, most restaurants do not sell branded wines so you cannot make a comparison with the shops however choice is small here and again in the UK beer is kept artificially low by the sales mix price of spirits.

I always say restaurants here would do well by sticking a 2 quid bottle of brandy on every table at the end of the night, all would be happy and in a year everyone would be blind and not be able to see the prices anyway!

[deputydawg]

I recall the times when it was said of small retail business that the only acumen required was to stick to the simple plan of "thirds" ie one third costs for goods and overheads, one third for wages, and one third profit !
Those times have long gone. It seems to me that now, and particularly in TRNC, if a business shows signs of success and profit the proprietor has to try and fend off the greed and jealousy of authorities and individuals who all want a piece of the cake or a larger piece of the cake by means fair or foul.

[JeanW]

Message 11 - Jonnie

I can remember (many moons ago) when a certain restauranteur used to do just that - I mean, of course, sticking a bottle of brandy on each table at the end of the night. It went down very well, too. Mind you, so did I on a couple of occasions! In fact, the lady still lives in TRNC.

[elizabeth]

To me it all depends on what you get with your mark up. Go to a good venue with nice decor, comfortable seating, good quality tableware napery etc, with clean loos hot water soap, nice towels to dry your hands on, nice glasses to drink from I would expect to pay more than I would in a place with plastic chairs, paper napkins, plastic tables etc etc

It is just the same in the UK, most restaurants do not sell branded wines so you cannot make a comparison with the shops however choice is small here and again in the UK beer is kept artificially low by the sales mix price of spirits.

I always say restaurants here would do well by sticking a 2 quid bottle of brandy on every table at the end of the night, all would be happy and in a year everyone would be blind and not be able to see the prices anyway!

I agree that restaurants have to charge higher prices in order to survive, especially here in Cyprus, but I do feel that 150% mark up is a little excessive. Incidentally I do not want a £2 bottle of brandy on my table, if I want paint stripper I'll go to the Yapi market.

[Barbieb]

Yes of course there is a 150% mark up on wine, in the supermarket we take it of the shelf, we open it our self, we cool if our self (if it is white), we use our own glass and wash our own glass, we don't employ anyone to open it, wash it, and serve it, and we certainly don't have the government breathing down our necks and wanting their share, it is exactly the same in UK, but maybe a bit more of a mark up, and if we look at the size of spirit measures served in the UK they are getting a lot more mark up, if we don't like paying the extra for the surroundings we have choice, stay home, turn on the tv and have a glass of wine!

[Keithcaley]

Yes of course there is a 150% mark up on wine, in the supermarket we take it of the shelf, we open it our self, we cool if our self (if it is white), we use our own glass and wash our own glass, we don't employ anyone to open it, wash it, and serve it, and we certainly don't have the government breathing down our necks and wanting their share, it is exactly the same in UK, but maybe a bit more of a mark up, and if we look at the size of spirit measures served in the UK they are getting a lot more mark up, if we don't like paying the extra for the surroundings we have choice, stay home, turn on the tv and have a glass of wine!

...........And there, Ladies and Gentlemen, speaks the Voice of Experience....

.

.

[Rambling Rose]

I agree with Elizabeth - one pays for a lot more than for the good and drink. "Ambience" is another cost - sea front locations presumably cost more in rent than beside a main road with traffic whizzing past. Also if you want a choice in food or drink you have to accept that a proportion of wastage has to be allowed for. And serving good wine, means you have to employ someone with the knowledge of how to store and keep it.

What annoys me is the increasing number of places which take advantage of a monopoly because of location to charge a high mark up - then have half the items on the menu "off", no ice, two or three choices of badly stored wine and only cans of fizzy drinks if one want a "soft" drink.

[deputydawg]

Some of the House Wines here must be by "Sarsons" as they cause more concern for "throw up" than "mark up".

[elizabeth]

Yes of course there is a 150% mark up on wine, in the supermarket we take it of the shelf, we open it our self, we cool if our self (if it is white), we use our own glass and wash our own glass, we don't employ anyone to open it, wash it, and serve it, and we certainly don't have the government breathing down our necks and wanting their share, it is exactly the same in UK, but maybe a bit more of a mark up, and if we look at the size of spirit measures served in the UK they are getting a lot more mark up, if we don't like paying the extra for the surroundings we have choice, stay home, turn on the tv and have a glass of wine!

I am fully aware of what is required to deliver a decent bottle of wine to the customer and that we all have a choice as to whether we choose to drink at a certain establishment or not.
One also has to take into account that how ever beautiful the surroundings if the food is mediocre, the service appalling and the prices are over inflated then some customers may, quite rightly, decide to take their custom elsewhere, and that is not sitting at home watching tv.

[iancrumpy]

Hi guys,
As a mathematician I'm curious as to how the mark-up is typically calculated ... but not being much of a wine drinker, I have no real data to go on
For example Keith, the mark-up on your bottle of wine from 8TL to 20TL was indeed 150%. But for example, would restaurants typically mark-up a 16TL-supermarket-priced wine by 150% to 40TL ... or would they increase it by the same 12TL to 28TL.
In theory, the mark-up should be a fixed amount in any one restaurant because for any bottle of wine one receives the same service and one is surrounded by the same ambience or view.
I know Keith will make some comment about me bringing mathematics into everything but seriously I'd be interested to hear if our kibkommers feel "fixed" mark-ups or percentage mark-ups are more common here.
Rgds,
iancrumpy

[Keithcaley]

Hiya Crumpy!

Just to get in first, ahead of the crowd ...

From what I see, a selling price roughly 2.5 times the buying price is pretty much the norm in the hospitality sector, rather than a fixed amount of profit 'per bottle' .

I would take Barbieb's assertion that it would be the norm in the UK as 'Gospel' - she and her husband ran establishments in the North West, so she knows what she's talking about.

I used to joke that the locals buy in Liras, and sell in Pounds (Sterling, that is) - not just drinks - everything !

And to answer your point about 'ambience' - I agree that it should be the case, but the pricier places tend to not sell 'Angora' or stuff that we slobs would buy in the supermarket, so it's harder to work out their margins , and the cheaper places still go for their 150%

[iancrumpy]

Keith wrote "From what I see, a selling price roughly 2.5 times the buying price is pretty much the norm in the hospitality sector, rather than a fixed amount of profit 'per bottle' "
Yeah, that's what I thought Keith. And yes, it means that for more expensive wines we pay more for the service ... maybe the waiter though pours the more expensive wines more carefully

Re : "ambience" - Mathematicians are allowed to make the occasional spelling mistake Keith ... similar to poets we have licenses for it