Roxys Bar & Diner - Bogaz

[MoonageDaydream]

I was surprised to see a message on Facebook to say that this bar in the harbour had closed and was up for sale. Anybody know if this is right? There were some good nights there during the World Cup, and it would be sad if it has closed. Bogaz lost George's cafe bar last year and Just Peace bar the year before. What is the problem here?

[Hilltop]

Closed and up for sale. Not enough custom to support expat type venues. To be honest If I go into the village I would prefer to sit on the harbour side rather than the roadside.

[tomsteel]

Too many restaurants in a confined space, no business/management plan, same food as competitors - location, location, location. Yet another example of the idiocy of business non-planning prevalent here and so avoidable. Sad for the staff though.

[karmels]

tomsteel.

Have you every run a restaurant in the TRNC? We had a restaurant for over 15 years but found it very hard to make ends meet, and we owed our restaurant.
First, there are no cash and carry's here you have to pay the same for food as joe public and sell it on and try to make a profit.
Then comes the KDV, and social sigorta plus your buisiness permit which cost us £3.000 each year split between both directors.
Then comes the electric, gas, and all the other costs which we had to pay.
At the end of the day there wasn't much left to live on but we survived and are now we retired, we do not miss the restaurant one bit.
All you have to do is add rent to most of the restaurants and you have problems.
We are very lucky as we now have Kimlik cards and enjoy our local old age pension as we payed into it, plus we get free medical at the state hospital and a reduced fee for any operations we may have to have.

So can you tell us how it is SO AVOIDABLE with your vast knowledge of catering in the TRNC.

By the way we had a catering company in the UK before we arrived, I have over 45 years in the industry, C & G 7065, look it up.

[karmels]

That should have read C & G 706-3-4&5.

[MoonageDaydream]

I still think its a shame about Roxys. It was offering something different in the harbour area, and informal cafe bar as opposed to the others which are mainly restaurants. Such a lovely couple running it too. Still if it wasn't working then its probably better to quit early rather than struggle on to the end of the season and lose even more money. They weren't doing 'just the same food' either, they were doing salads, curries and burgers and the location is central, and with sea views too.

I used to like Just Peace as well, but that had the same problem of failing to attract enough customers.
Maybe the problem in this part of Cyprus is that apartment owners and renters prefer to buy their Efes and wine from Lemar and drink it on their own balconies or patios? I would like to think that someone could make a go of a bar in the harbour area, as Bogaz lacks a bit of 'soul' without one.

[butterfly]

Well said karmels!!!!! That should be the standard answer for any ex pat wanting to opening in the food busienss here. We too lasted 18 months 12 years ago, in the centre of Girne. Nothing has changed for ex pats, again, well said.

[butterfly]

Well said karmels!!!!! That should be the standard answer for any ex pat wanting to opening in the food busienss here. We too lasted 18 months 12 years ago, in the centre of Girne. Nothing has changed for ex pats, again, well said.

[tomsteel]

Ref msg 4 above, my knowledge of catering is confined to the end stage - actually eating the product. However, your response, stating your vast experience and the many cost factors involved confirms my point that a business and a management plan are a must. I do know the theory and practice of those business tools if there is to be any chance of success, whatever the nature of any venture - I doubt catering differs from this business model. I'll give you a specific catering example close to where I live here, some 8 kms east of Esentepe. There is a well established, well run, popular with locals and expats, restaurant attached to a small holiday village complex. Over the past 3 months a further 4 restaurants have opened all within 2 kms and on a country road with few expat complexes not already served. Further, the town of Esentepe, some 5kms west has at least 9 restaurants. What chance of all of these establishments surviving, given your past experience and knowledge? Even those successful ones have their annual rents hiked up by greedy landlords. I do not doubt the commitment, work ethic or skill involved in catering. I still maintain, however, if there are too many establishments in the same area, serving a similar product to a transient audience, there will be casualties. You are, of course, at liberty to disagree with my opinion and you obviously do by the tone of your original post - such is life and the price of freedom.

[Reyntj]

people have jumped to a lot of conclusions here without the facts .from what I have heard the owners "where" indeed a lovely couple and well liked. its not necessarily the facts that the business has closed for financial reasons . I hope someone else takes it on .

[Owl Lady]

I have to say Karme'ls was one of the best restaurant in the Ozankoy area. He was the only one I knew who served GIANT pork chops. Delicious. Yes I love Turkish food but the odd chop went down a treat.

[tomsteel]

Reyntji, I do not know the area. How many other eateries are there within a 3/5 km area? Do any of them offer a 'speciality' popular with diners, fantastic location etc? I have no doubt the previous owners were, "indeed a lovely couple", however business is a tough game and especially so for expats here, with the many hurdles imposed upon them by the 'protectionist, nepotistic and (yabançi) cash cow attitudes' prevailing here. Hence my views on a sound business/management plan approved by your financial sponsor.

[karmels]

tomsteel.
And who would your sponsor be??

The place you mentioned in the large complex I know, but just because it is on a complex doesn't mean the owners will eat there.
They have spent all day round the pool and at night want to eat out, this is were the other restaurants come into play.
Yes they need to serve quality food at the right price, but they are over 25 Km from Girne were the cheaper food is located, they have to drive there to get the best deals on all foods to make a profit, the number of restaurants only depends on the number of local / Tourist in the area. Bogaz is a thriving tourist area with a lovely harbor but these tourist are on a day out from maybe Girne or Famagust they need to go home to change and then go out local for a meal.
When we had our restaurant in Ozankoy there were 8 restaurants in the village centre and another 6 within the village limits, buisiness was booming for all.
What caused the lack of customers was the building boom, these regular tourist bought houses were they could cook for them selves and only coming out twice a week, plus the prices increased because of the introduction of KDV ( VAT ). This was the nail in the coffin for most of us.
I wish any one hoping to make a living here in the catering area good luck, it will all end in tears. The only person to make money out of a rented restaurant is the landlord.
That is my last rant on this subject as it upsets me to see people loosing money here.

[tomsteel]

I do not wish you to 'rant', especially so as your views support mine as to sound business principles. The catering business, like adjacent supermarkets, DIY stores, veterinary shops et al all support my view that very few business analysis are completed here.

[MoonageDaydream]

I agree business analysis appears to be rare in North Cyprus, and you can see that just outside Bogaz where someone convinced a bank to lend them a large sum of money to build a 'Bazaar' full of shops which have been empty for two years.

Many of the posters here have been about RESTAURANTS though. Bogaz is not short of these it has Kemal's, Karsel and Eddies on the harbour (and the one in the shed during the day), and Nese, Iskele Balik and others within a few minutes drive. What the place lacks is a cafe BAR. Reyntj seems to know some of the background to the sudden cl;osure of Roxys, and like him/her I hope someone else takes it on.

[CatalkoyChris]

Personally, its quite nice to have so much choice. And they all have to compete with each other which keeps the standards up and the prices down.

[tomsteel]

Regrettably, standards minimise and prices are, generally, set as a 'norm'.

[tomsteel]

Sorry Karmels, I missed answering your initial query regarding sponsorship in msg 13 above. Financial 'sponorship' or backing is all part of the business planning process, as I am sure you are aware. Few small business owners will be MBA qualified, but they can always access auditors or specialists in the initial planning/proposed pre-set up phase. This should give an indication of possible/probable viability, albeit circumstances do, and will, change. I am, of course, generalising, as I do not know Roxy's or its past owners - ergo, you may wish to just ignore my thoughts as irrelevant to the specifics of this particular case.

[karmels]

Tommy

You have just made it quite clear you have no knowledge of how to open a business in Cyprus, there are no people to advise you all there are are people who want to distroy you, this is from the accountants to the solicitors they give bad advise. Just talking to a friend this afternoon who has a business here about his accountant who forgot to file tax returns, guess what he got, a fine of 7.000 TL with no come back on the accountant.
I rest my case.

[tomsteel]

Karmels, we'll have to agree to disagree. My local eatery is owned and run by an Brit expat and it's a highly successful business too, despite some further 5 like businesses in the same small village. He was also, like you running a catering/bistro business in UK (E Sussex), and it was highly successful too. Having had a few chats with him, he most definitely did have both business and management plans prior to starting his establishment here. These were amended when his greedy landlord saw him making a success of the establishment and demanded an outrageous rent increase within the same year. Needless to say, he did not get it and the place closed down. The Brit then opened in another venue in the same village and, thereby, retained his faithful customer base whilst building upon it via word of mouth recommendations. He is doing very nicely thank you too. Whilst I am sure there are horror stories, not every Brit fails here. You are correct, however, I know nothing of starting a business here, hence my common sense tells me not to do so. Had my accountant landed me with a 7K TL fine, I would have sought legal redress and changed to another firm tut damn quick. I fully accept the treatment of expats by the judiciary, fiscal, legal, property, government is unjust (I am just one such a case) - however I choose to live here, warts and all. Let's just accept we disagree on this subject.

[karmels]

I will agree with you tomsteel as some of the points you mention are valid, as for seeking legal action our 7k it would take you the minimum of 3 years and another 7k to chase this through our legal system and as you are a expat you have little chance of winning.

[snd1966]

One day that word accountable will mean something here but then everything will change.
I just wish the word conscience meant something now.