Research - Part 1 & 2

[waddo]

I think that the base problem in all things expat/TRNC is a lack of readily available knowledge ("Truth/Law") displayed in a similar format to that which expats are used to. There is an inherent distrust of all those of the legal profession in any country, they have never done themselves any favours anywhere in the past and for them, as a body, there is no way back - trust in them has died! Instead of people working at finding out what is legal/true by spending their own time in research, most are content to take the word of "bar talk" or reports posted in local newspapers as gospel.
People will willingly spend hours on “Facebook”, Twitter, Forums, etc. passing on snippets of information that may or may not have been founded upon truth – remember the old saying “Send three and four pence, we are going to a dance”? The earliest version ever found was actually – “Enemy advancing from the left flank. Send reinforcements.” Which changed into - “Enemy advancing with ham-shanks. Send three and four pence!” Here the subject of the “White Card” which is the TRNC Governments name for the Permanent Residency Document has been changed into the White Card of Citizenship!
The majority of information that people seek is actually out there, published on Government Web Sites on the Internet – sadly for all us non-Turkish speaking/reading seekers of truth, it is mainly in Turkish and the use of either Microsoft or Google Translate programs can only compound the misinterpretation of what has been written. You can, of course, visit a member of the legal profession or Citizens Advice to gain clarity of statements – but – would you trust them? So you are left with your own interpretation of the written word and form your own opinion or what is or is not the truth.

This is not a bad thing if you wish to carry out research on your own, in many instances the “Law” is clear and in black and white – in others the “Law” is written is such a manner that it can be interpreted in many different ways. That is why most none legal people fail to trust those of the legal profession!! However, I have spent many happy hours, beating my head against the desk in frustration, whilst seeking that one nugget of truth amongst all the devious dead ends of legality! It keeps me out of the bars and off the streets if nothing else!
I was given a web address for the TRNC Law Courts some time ago and was unsure if I could make it public, stupid really as any address on the WWW is in the public domain. It formed my starting point for my research and I would give it to you all, however, I have found a better starting point if anyone would wish to carry out their own research into the intricacies of the country in which they have decided to make their home.
So, if you are truly interested, have had enough of listening to the drunk at the bar expound on what is really wrong with the country, want to do your own research and also improve your Turkish a little (it is not easy so do not expect any sudden ray of sunlight to brighten your VDU) then start here:
http://mfa.gov.ct.tr/
At the bottom you will find some “useful links” and indeed they are! Go on, seek out the Turkish word Mevzuat (legislation) and go from there – if nothing else, with winter heading our way, it will give you something different to do and broaden your mind. Good Luck!

[PoshinDevon]

Great post and have bookmarked the link. Will make use of the winter months here in the UK to spend time reading.

Cheers

[waddo]

Thanks Posh, 245 views and only your comment - says it all really. People must be heads down into research all over the place!

[Fesenjan123]

Thanks Waddo. I will certainly make a determind attempt to research this site.

[silverfir]

Waddo, an interesting post. Lack of response is due to the fact that people have perhaps got more interesting things to do than research, but if that`s your bag - enjoy.

[waddo]

On a forum where 70% of the posts are questions - the more interesting things people have to do must be truly riveting!

[Hilltop]

Your opening post was too long. I looked at it and thought "Maybe Later". I do not want to be educated, I want to be entertained.

[johnerebus]

I was educated by your post and also entertained Waddo, e.g. "amongst all the devious dead ends of legality!" Now that's a great phrase. So thanks for making the effort and posting a very informative piece.

[waddo]

jonerebus, you are most welcome. Hilltop, the Cratos is open 24/7 - enjoy! Not trying to educate, I think the time for that is long past.

[Philoz]

Great post Waddo,and I ,like Posh will take the time out to read the web site more fully-I am sure it is full of gems.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble for bringing it to my attention.

One point though,why would a 'Country' that is not recognised by any other country(except Turkey) in the world have a 'Ministry of Foreign affairs'-when, according to the UN, it's not a country?

To those who derided Waddo's post,education is a wonderful thing-you need to try it sometime.

[Ragged Robin]

All of which is a quick way of saying "The Law is an ass" - in any language!

Maybe the paucity of response is that people - like me - need time to read and digest - and/or had a domestic (in my case canine) crisis to cope with.

Laws are not made by Politicians - politicians have ideas which are translated into writing by Civil Servants (remember Sir Humphrey?) and. if passed by the Legislature , transcribed by specialist legal drafters into legislation, which is then read by other Civil Servants and Local Government Officers etc who then pass it on in speech or Manuals to those who actually have to make them work. All with their own ideas on what it should have said in the first place - as Waddo says ending up as "send three and sixpence". That is why legal documents are so long winded - any responsible drafter has to cover every possible misinterpretation.

Actually I had seen the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Website before, when I was trying to find out the validity of EU Identity Cards for entry to the TRNC for the grandchildren of Italian visitors. It directed me to the TRNC's Honorary Representative in Italy. As his name was Italian I passed details on to my friends who tell me he never answered his phone or messages. So to be on the safe side they rushed to get Passports, only to find the the Identity Cards would have been accepted when they got here!

An interesting and thought provoking post, Waddo , and thank you : I am unsure what practical use but good hunting.

I havent yet come across anything about expatriates and residence. I am now confused about Citizenship and Permanent Residence. Have the Government decided to drop the proposals for permanent residence, or was it a mistake on the BRS Site to head the the proposals about Citizenship "White Card!? .

[waddo]

RR, Sorry, there is no such thing as a short answer in research within the TRNC - lol. Try this, it may answer some of your questions or indeed prompt more! Go to http://www.mahkemeler.net/cgi-bin/default.aspx that link will take you to the TRNC Courts Laws. On the LHS click on the emboldened word MEVZUAT (list of laws), you will then have a choice of letters of the alphabet to choose from, click on the letter Y, this will give you 5 pages of laws begining with Y. Click on the figure 2 to go to the second page and at the top you will find FASIL 105, go to the RHS and click on f_105.doc, that will open (the normal box will open to ask in what format you wish the doc to be opened - chose your MS Word package) the law that contains information on Passports and Visa's (amongst other things). If you are using MS Word 2010 then once the doc has opened you will have the chance of a quick/rough translation as well. Click on the REVIEW TAB, TRANSLATE and wait till it has translated, then set it to read Side by Side so that you get the Turkish and English versions as two docs on one page (quite usful to have it that way). The main points are under MADDE (Article) 9 but plough through the whole thing and try to figure out why the Captain of the Ship is one responsible for most things???

More on the "White Card" later.

[waddo]

RR, Using the same URL as above. The link provided by the BRS - http://www.brstrnc.com/images/stories/1 ... ls_1_2.pdf - Gives you the "Draft" new law in English, note that this law incorporates previous laws 25/1993, 58/1995 and strangely 51/2006, I say strangely as law 51/2006 concerns the law for Electrical Contractors???? Go through a similar process but this time put 25/1993 in the empty space provided above the list of the alphabet and click on BUL. Again use the translate function (Please remember that this is a literal translation and that to us English speakers, Turkish is somewhat backwards in logical writing! This is the current law for "New Citizenship Law" that the, so called by BRS "White Card" will replace. Also note that in the English translation of the new "Draft" the White Card is clearly identified as The "White Identification Card‟ means the Identification card issued by the Registry Office either to permanent residents or to temporary resident permit holders!

No more till the Singapore F1 is over - I have a real life here as well - lol.

[Lovelife]

Thanks for the link, I shall make use of it, may also improve the Turkish.

Your never too old to learn something new.

LL

[waddo]

Make no mistakes here - the Turkish/English translations are "Literal" and the use of MS or Google Translate can give you different meanings as well. There are many on-line translation packages available (free) and if you try to translate via MS Word 2010 and find the document is protected - cheat - copy the whole document into a blank Word document and then you can translate that!! Even if you never learn another single new Turkish word, the exercise will teach you just how Turkish appears backward and you will learn to understand it more - honest. But it is not easy so don't spend hours at a time at it, unless of course you get like me and try to chase down one simple paragraph that ends up meaning nothing in the first place - after that, its Beer O Clock!!!!!! Have fun, don't make it your lifes work.