winter fuel allowances

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Mon 05 Jan 2015 6:59 pm

Just seen BBC weather forecast for Cyprus temps 7deg daytime night time minus2 with severe frosts. Not cold here? ha ha!

Kavenkoy · Post by **Kavenkoy** » Mon 05 Jan 2015 8:24 pm

Why you still paying tax on pensions ,worked all your life and wonder why ???

These type
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/coup ... ry-4922866

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 05 Jan 2015 9:08 pm

It was our choice to come here, and in some cases we checked the drawbacks and made provision for them, including financial. Unfortunately we did not have crystal balls, and did not foresee that the combination of the world financial crisis and the increased cost of living (which resulted from the demands of the post 2004 influx of expats including Brits), would so seriously deplete the value of our hard earned pensions, and savings which we had put aside for health care and comforts such as being able to buy enough fuel to keep warm in the cold winters. Nor could we foresee events in Britain, including the influence of the EU, would result in consecutive Governments skimping on health and social care, and we would become double vulnerable target both as expats and an aging population.

As for the Cypriots, it seems they cope much as we do, they suffer from the cold : the poorer ones more than the rich and the old and frail more than the young and active. and they complain! The very old and frail and the sick are probably reduced to staying in bed during the worst weather. The main difference is the culture means the disadvantaged get more support from extended families and in the community than we do, although this is showing signs of breaking up. Also judging purely from the amount and frequency of smoke and chimneys I would guess they have more access to fuel from fires than us. And perhaps they worry less about the risks of gas and paraffin heaters , and there have been some nasty accidents as a result. Poorer families also tend to have smaller houses and spend more time together in one room, resulting in less space to heat. Cypriots also dont have to pay for the right to work and make money to pay for increased costs of heating.
I get the impression that for all races, one the the problems is the degree and rapidity of the changes in temperature: the body does not adjust easily to a drop of over 50F in three or four months! And my Cypriot friends are convinced that cllimate change is making the extremes more severe Even after all my time here I find it difficult to make the mental and consequently practical adjustments : it always seems no sooner have I realised it is time to pack away electric fans and sun umbrellas and bathing costumes, before I am panicking about where I put thick sweaters and blankets and ordering firewood!

Remember also that the UK Government subsidies insulation of homes and measures to achieve fuel economy out of our taxes. Not to help the elderly or poor, but to get brownie points with EU and UN for reducing carbon emissions If I didnt pay UK tax I could probably afford to insulate my house here, and benefit and save costs in excessive heat as well as cold!

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Mon 05 Jan 2015 9:13 pm

Deniz1 wrote:Just seen BBC weather forecast for Cyprus temps 7deg daytime night time minus2 with severe frosts. Not cold here? ha ha!

A link to that would be good? SEVERE frosts??? Seriously? In the UK it can get down to something like -20 with wind chill making it a lot worse. When was the last time your water pipes froze in Cyprus? I have known no household water for several days in fact in my youth we went 2 weeks with no mains because of frozen pipes and not so long ago for three days in London. Come on get real, it is not that cold here.

Fact for the last year :-

http://www.nigelheasman.com/wview/img/Yearly_Plus.htm

Of course it may well be colder up the top of the Trodos but in 9 years here at the higher level for housing I have never seen a frost although I have had brief periods of snow which settled for a couple of hours.

johnerebus · Post by **johnerebus** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 12:08 am

I read an article a couple of days ago - BBC online news again - stating, and I don't remember the exact amount 'cause it was sooooo huge - trillions and trillions - of cash hidden away by individuals, companies and the super rich who never pay one penny of tax on this money which is deposited in offshore / secrete accounts. Allegedly the amount is equal to the GNP of the USA and Japan combined. Worra lorra dosh eh?
Please bring back the satire of "Yes Minister" so it's writers and characters can with tongue in cheek pour scorn and blame on those £200 a year winter fuel allowance scroungers, bums, immigrants and work shy while justifying exonerating and glorifying the real immoral money targets.
Magicians call this "Misdirection"

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 6:23 am

Are you saying I am lying Jonnie? No link as it was BBC television news.

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 7:38 am

Deniz1 wrote:Are you saying I am lying Jonnie? No link as it was BBC television news.

No I am saying either you or the BBC have got it wrong.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 7:56 am

Jonnie wrote:
Deniz1 wrote:Are you saying I am lying Jonnie? No link as it was BBC television news.
No I am saying either you or the BBC have got it wrong.

Without wishing to join in the normal BBC Weather site is forecasting minus 4 degrees for Friday night...

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 7:59 am

Which still would not be severe....

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 8:35 am

Jonnie wrote:Which still would not be severe....

Well, it's quite severe for here - it could be enough to kill off some of the more exotic plants in my garden!

Be good for the sprouts though...

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 8:52 am

I just saw this on Facebook, and it made me laugh...

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 9:09 am

Need to go back to Fahrenheit then!

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 4:30 pm

The discussion is not about whether winters in the UK and colder than in Cyprus - of course they are4. Its even colder in the Artic, but Polar Bears dont get winter fuel allowance ! And despite being genetically adapted to cold conditons they are an endangered species as are British Pensioners it seems !. Its about whether it is cold enough to endanger human health/life without adequate heating, and whether people who have contributed all their lives should be be denied benefits themselves while still subsidizing those who have not contributed.

Personally I still think the loss of the personal allowance is more serious than the winter fuel allowance and we should be concentrating any representations to the UK Gvt. to that !

Now if I dont get the fire lit soon, I wont be able to type any more (sigh of relief all round) as my fingers are getting numb.

PS I was going to put a snowy smiley here, but the !"view more smilies" doesnt work. Has it been removed now Christmas is over?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 7:00 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:...PS I was going to put a snowy smiley here, but the !"view more smilies" doesnt work. Has it been removed now Christmas is over?

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 7:53 pm

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 8:04 pm

Deniz1 wrote:

Ouch!

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 06 Jan 2015 9:04 pm

Thanks Deniz: that was the one I wanted, trying again...................... no it still wont work! The others work, its just the "view more" that does nothing when I click it.

Govt. warning out today for forthcoming winds and rain, so batten down the hatches, expect electric cuts, and do something about those exotic plants, Keith. I expect it will bring all my lemons down prematurely , as it did last, year but I hope that is the worst that happens and you all manage to keep warm and dry somehow.

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 6:24 am

Good news Ragged Robin still it is winter so we have to grin and bear it!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 6:35 am

Ragged Robin wrote: I expect it will bring all my lemons down prematurely....

Hence the deep voice?

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 10:30 am

Ha ha I thought bare it was inappropriate!

paddywack · Post by **paddywack** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 10:40 am

If you are worried about not getting UK benefits. why did you jump ship?

flowerfairy · Post by **flowerfairy** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 12:36 pm

To answer your question paddywack. It's safer to ''jump ship'' before it goes down.

I've just heard on the news that the U.K. government are going to try to stop immigrants from claiming family allowance
and sending it back for their children in their country. !!!!!!
No comment.

paddywack · Post by **paddywack** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 1:07 pm

flowerfairy wrote:To answer your question paddywack. It's safer to ''jump ship'' before it goes down.

I've just heard on the news that the U.K. government are going to try to stop immigrants from claiming family allowance
and sending it back for their children in their country. !!!!!!
No comment.

Another case of, if you do not live in the country, why should you qualify for benefits.

TRNCVaughan · Post by **TRNCVaughan** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 3:16 pm

paddywack wrote:
flowerfairy wrote:To answer your question paddywack. It's safer to ''jump ship'' before it goes down.

I've just heard on the news that the U.K. government are going to try to stop immigrants from claiming family allowance
and sending it back for their children in their country. !!!!!!
No comment.
Another case of, if you do not live in the country, why should you qualify for benefits.

The difference being that we paid into the system which they did not. We are only being given our own money.

Kavenkoy · Post by **Kavenkoy** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 3:47 pm

TRNCVaughan wrote:
paddywack wrote:
flowerfairy wrote:To answer your question paddywack. It's safer to ''jump ship'' before it goes down.

I've just heard on the news that the U.K. government are going to try to stop immigrants from claiming family allowance
and sending it back for their children in their country. !!!!!!
No comment.
Another case of, if you do not live in the country, why should you qualify for benefits.
The difference being that we paid into the system which they did not. We are only being given our own money.

This will be like pantomine season .....it's not your money now ,oh yes it is oh no it isn't lol.

Kav

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 5:06 pm

There I told you so, I said it does snow in North Cyprus!!!!

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 5:08 pm

Buy gas today the price of a gas bottle is going up tomorrow good timing government.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Wed 07 Jan 2015 8:56 pm

paddywack wrote:If you are worried about not getting UK benefits. why did you jump ship?

I looked before I leapt - both NI and Tax (though I forgot about WFA because I wasnt age eligible at the time - but they changed the goalposts

And to scramble yet another metaphor if you discover you have jumped from the fire into the frying pan, how anxious are you to crawl back into the fire?

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 1:07 am

As a person (pensioner) who first ventured abroad in 2011 for two weeks holiday in Northern Cyprus, repeated each year since, and one who would love to buy a holiday home there, but is likely to remain and die in the UK; a potted history (from Wikipedia) followed by my own personal opinion -

1."National Insurance (NI) in the United Kingdom is a system of contributions paid by workers and employers towards the cost of certain state benefits. It was initially a contributory system of insurance against illness and unemployment, and later also provided retirement pensions and other benefits. It was first introduced by the National Insurance Act 1911, expanded by the Labour government in 1948 and has been subject to numerous amendments in subsequent years."

2. "The State Pension is a "contribution-based" benefit, and depends on an individual's National Insurance (NI) contribution history."

3. "The beginning of the modern state pension was the Old Age Pensions Act 1908, that provided 5 shillings (£0.25) a week for those over 70 whose annual means do not exceed £31.50. It coincided with the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress 1905-09 and was the first step in the Liberal welfare reforms to the completion of a system of social security, with unemployment and health insurance through the National Insurance Act 1911.
After the Second World War, the National Insurance Act 1946 completed universal coverage of social security. The National Assistance Act 1948 formally abolished the poor law, and gave a minimum income to those not paying national insurance."

So, it could be argued that (as a "state pension" of sorts was introduced before National Insurance began) all NI contributors are/were paying for those before, who have received or are already receiving "state pensions", while those coming into pensions will be funded by those working/contributing in the future years.....

Regardless of this point, the basic fact is that pensions and other "certain state benefits" are paid for by the individual's contributions.

As such, if you're here, you contribute - for the moment, disregard the question of immigrants....

Another (perhaps simplistic) point - if/when you have worked and earned your pay, are you restricted/penalised/prevented as to whether you spend your earnings where you earned them, or can you spend them wherever you choose - shop/district/county /COUNTRY?

My oldest friend (sadly now dead) and Godfather to my son was Jamaican; he lived and worked here in the UK for 45 years and returned home when he retired - fortunately he got a pension increase - but he would not had he come from Trinidad!

In my opinion, the reduction in tax allowances and the withdrawal of the "fuel allowance" is a vile and cruel act - if some are fortunate - or desperate - enough to leave their homeland, why should they be penalised?

Throughout my life I have worked, earned and saved - I have NOT "p****d it up against the wall", or wasted it - so I get nothing. I am ashamed to say that some of my family have earned MUCH more than I - but now get all sorts of help and benefits....

The Winter Fuel Allowance is paid to everyone who qualifies by age - I could manage without it, and I am sure many others also do not NEED it - so why penalise certain ones? What about the "Christmas Bonus" - is that being axed for expats?

Returning to the question of immigrants and benefits - I am open to persuasion, but in my opinion, while immigrants may be commended for seeking work here to provide for their families, benefits (such as family/child allowances) should not be provided until significant contributions have been paid - if you recall, many UK workers moved abroad to provide for their families (remember "Auf Widershein Pet"?), but did not receive benefits abroad - only what they earned....

In summary, in my opinion, tax allowances, WFA and anything else you have earned/contributed to should not be stolen from you...

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 7:05 am

Here Here!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 8:49 am

Jofra, quite agree! It will be interesting to see if the personal allowance (PA)(TAX) for expats is withdrawn but I feel it is just another one of those "Good Ideas" that MP's are paid to come up with in the sure and certain knowledge that it will keep people in work for the current reign of the current government and then be shelved with the mountain of other "bright" ideas that have come to nothing in the end. Why? Because there are many types of "Expat" around in the world, some live solely on the income provided by the State Pension, others have additional small pensions and more have larger incomes plus savings as well. All of them who have pensions paid for from Government sources are taxed at source by the UK, all of them have a PA which off sets the loss of money due to income tax being paid. Most of them will be UK born and not fall under the generalisation of "immigrants" that receive many benefits for little input. This is a powerful group of people that would have the UK public behind them in any fight to retain their PA. It seems that what the Government is trying to do is put in place an unwieldy and complex system of PA removal or reduction that even the financial bodies are against. If there is but one brain cell at work anywhere within Westminster it must be working in a highly alarmed state at this time!!

I will wait and see but worry little as I am already in receipt of the State Pension which is "allegedly" TAX free - therefore I will retain what is effectively a PA of the same amount as my annual State Pension!! My State Pension is £121.00 per week, times 52 weeks = £6292.00 per annum. My PA is £10500.00 so I will lose PA benefits on £4208 @ 20% which comes out to £841.60 more tax per year. Or if you want to look at it a different way - my State Pension will be reduced by £16.18 per week down to £104.82 a week. I am in no way saying that "So what, I can afford that", but it will not be life changing at this stage of the game for myself but for others it will be so!!!! In particular those who are not old enough to be in the State Pension received bracket yet! In some ways it supports my Fathers old statement of "You are always better off skint", yes he was a strange chap - lol.

harita · Post by **harita** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 1:37 pm

At 8.40am this morning updated the weather on my phone ..
4º Kyrenia (reel feel -1) .... --4º Istanbul ... 8º Wigan ... 12º London

2,30pm
6º Kyrenia .... --2º Istanbul ... 9º Wigan ... 9º London

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 2:29 pm

harita - love it although can't see why you added Wigan and which end of the pier was the temp taken anyway - lol? Thing is, you can only claim winter fuel allowance if you live in an EEA country and the TRNC is not one of them - neither is Iceland according to the DWP list but I see the Daily Mail still say's they qualify????

Your list of temp's prompted me to find out which countries ARE in the EEA and there are some there I can't even pronounce but I have them all now and am just going to do a temp check on the capital's of each - just for fun as I have lost a hinge I was fitting to a pump cover and have nothing else to do..............

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 2:55 pm

There are folk living in TRNC who get the heating allowance providing they were in the uk at the time of claiming but not necessarily living there at that time. I was honest when I filled in the form saying that when I was 60 I was abroad so i didnt get it.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 2:58 pm

Task completed - just out of interest:

There are 12 EEA Capitals with a higher temp than Nicosia today, of those 12, 6 are set to lose their payments. Of those 6, 2 who will lose their payments are Nicosia and Athens (That’s like the Eurovision voting!) both at the same temp today.

Strange that places with a higher temp include Brussels, who will keep their payments – are they not something to do with the EU through – lol.

harita · Post by **harita** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 3:05 pm

waddo .. Lived in Wigan for 35 years, more than half my life when we left, seeking the sun ..

BTW our £200 heating allowance has just gone toward filling our gas tank .. No permit & no questions asked ..

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 3:18 pm

Hey, good for you - any chance you can leave a window open so us that don't get the allowance can warm our hands in passing - lol.

Bl**dy Government - grrrr. Bet they never put up the price of lunch in the House of Lords to beyond the £300.00 per day subsidy they get for attendance. Just had a look at today's menu and had a 3 course lunch for £7.35 - drinks not included!!!

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Thu 08 Jan 2015 9:36 pm

Seems everyone wants piece of the pie............

http://www.easterneye.eu/news/uk-news/F ... +cold/4432

harita · Post by **harita** » Fri 09 Jan 2015 7:34 am

8.05am

2` Kyrenia. -6` Istanbul. 11` Wigan. 11` London.

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Fri 09 Jan 2015 9:10 am

A slightly more inclusive picture:-

Average temp

Kyrenia/Newcastle October 20/10, November 16/7.5, Decmber 12.2/4, January 10/5, February 10/5.5, March 12.8/7

Now if you think it is only a few degrees imagine adding 5-10 degrees to our highs, it would kill you.

mrsgee · Post by **mrsgee** » Sat 10 Jan 2015 10:02 am

Don't know if its any use but a friend who lives in Spain, and who is equally annoyed about the payments, sent me this which was put on her local expat forum:

"British Expats in Cyprus have been given notice, that as from September 2015, they will no longer be eligible to claim Winter Fuel Payments from the British Government. This has outraged the British Expats in Cyprus and also other British Expats in those other countries affected.
We have been sent a possible loophole in the Statutory Instrument, the piece of legislation that the British Government has used to take away the Winter Fuel Payment.
There is a parliamentary technique which is rarely used to halt the implementation of the Statutory Instrument, otherwise known as a (prayer). It has to be activated within 40 days of the tabling of the Statutory Instrument.
In order to have a chance of overturning the Statutory Instrument, the clerk must receive a large number of submissions, then action may be taken to stop the implementation.
You must send an email to the clerk – Work & Pensions Committee workpencom@parliament.uk You may use the following text:
Dear Madam. Please convey the following message immediately to the Committee.
To members of the Select Committee for Work & Pensions It is urged that a ‘prayer’ an EDM as follows is laid before parliament before the 24th January (40 days after the SI was laid) Early Day Motion (prayer) Winter Fuel Payment to British Citizens in EU countries.
The Statutory Instrument 2014 No. 3270 (laid before PARLIAMENT on the 15th December 2014 restricting payment to pensioners residing in countries incorrectly called by the DWP ‘hot’ of the EU should be annulled. After the General Election, the matter may then be appropriately reconsidered by the new Parliament.
1. It discriminates against certain groups of British Citizen pensioners residing in certain States of the EU, some of whom are already in financial difficulties.
2. This SI almost certainly contravenes the UK treaty agreement with the EU on social security co-ordination.

Signed "

Might be worth sending.

Kavenkoy · Post by **Kavenkoy** » Sat 10 Jan 2015 10:47 am

How long have they been paying WFA ?been said since mid to late 90s ?
What did people do before ,when winters were colder not Warner as in global warming ?

If they introduce something ,and this generation gets the benefit ....Surely they have the right to withdraw so the next generation doesn't have to pay for it ?
The world may have changed a touch since the mid to late 90s .

Take it off you yes ,I agree 100%
Raise the tax allowance for pensioners or stop expats paying tax to a company they left ,yes 100%
Servicemen and woman shouldn't pay tax after retiring .
Will you change it ,no probably not .

The next generation is going to be poorer than your generation who are claiming it ...fact

Kav

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Sat 10 Jan 2015 3:02 pm

Ian Duncan-Smith said that it was "obscene" that expats in the Med. area should receive WFA. Today, trying hard but failing, to get temp over 14deg in Living room. Bedrooms around 7deg and bathrooms about 6deg. Fleeces abound and two pairs of socks are the order of the day. Typing this in office/bedroom wearing fingerless gloves. Still another couple of months and all will be well again.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 10 Jan 2015 4:43 pm

[quote="waddo" Most of them will be UK born and not fall under the generalisation of "immigrants" that receive many benefits for little input. This is a powerful group of people that would have the UK public behind them in any fight to retain their PA. It seems that what the Government is trying to do is put in place an unwieldy and complex system of PA removal or reduction that even the financial bodies are against.

Waddo: Where do you get the "powerful group of people" and "UK public behind them" from? It seems to me there is very little representation for expats generally (some of us have even lost the right to vote), we cant even agree about the subject among our selves on this forum; and I am horrified by the misconceptions of thethe UK public of what a Mediterranean winter(or even lifestyle) is like and they are just jealous thinking of us sitting round the pool drinking G & Ts.

Perhaps we should get pictures of TRNC expats huddled in coats and blanket round a gas heater or single bar fire (log fires would send the wrong message!) and send it to the UK media! Wouldnt do much good to the tourist industry though.

The Financial Industry is a good thought though. Loss of the PA would mean some of us withdrawing what little is left if capital from investments.

mrsgee · Post by **mrsgee** » Sat 10 Jan 2015 4:57 pm

or maybe just do as I suggested above and email the Government Department BEFORE 24th of Jan which is apparently the deadline for registering your feelings, and maybe getting it overturned. I have sent it.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sat 10 Jan 2015 8:53 pm

Just done it!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 11 Jan 2015 11:32 am

Don't really think that photo's of TRNC expats huddled in coats and blankets round a gas heater or single bar fire would elicit any type of support from the UK media to support Not removing the PA from expats??? The only way you will gain support from any media is if you can is if you can prove an MP is out here trying to hide from a Yew Tree investigation - that would sell papers and they would be interested!!! The financial industries is not just a thought, many of them have already written to the Govt explaining just what a poor idea it is to remove PA. To fall in line, I have also registered my feelings and sent them, I do not expect much in the way of response and if I get the same as I did in replying to their request for comment and feelings regarding the removal of PA I will be amazed!

I feel you have to take all things in context. If you chose to come to a country that your Govt refuses to admit exists - even through as a guarantor power it has an obligation to look after it - and you have been advised by your Govt (via their website which is not their problem if you never read it) not to come and that if you do they will not support you in any way, then surely you have no complaints when they ignore you??? So to look at it in black and white - you live in a country that is not part of the EEA and therefore would not qualify for heating allowance even if it existed, which of course it does not! By coming here to retire (not to flit back and forth) we have placed ourselves in the same position as the famed one legged man in the arse kicking competition - we don't have a leg to stand on!!

Repent at Leisure · Post by **Repent at Leisure** » Sun 11 Jan 2015 12:49 pm

There may be hope, but you will have to wait for the legislation to become law.

http://www.surinenglish.com/20130814/ne ... 41136.html

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 11 Jan 2015 4:21 pm

I thought the petition was about the Winter Fuel Allowance, not the Personal Allowance? Can anyone enlighten me. Is there one about the -Personal Allowance?

Waddo: The comment about the papers was slightly tongue in cheek! The Government did not have a website when I came to Cyprus - a spend months making telephone and written enquiries , most of which were ignored , the remainder where either irrelevant or proved to be inaccurate.

The fact is that if the personal allowance is withdrawn I shall start using capital towards health care, which means sooner or later I willl have to return to UK (actually the point where I still have enough to keep me at UK prices including private health care ! for six months) and cost the NI and Social Services a lot more than the cost of continued personal allowance.

Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Join us