Work Permits

[cb101]

I have been reading about work permits being required for entertainers etc, etc, but now hear that if I am over 65 I do not need a work permit. Does anyone know if this is correct and has anyone got it in writing.

[Marions]

Lots of people want to know the answer to that, and several are on a mission to find out if it is true. But please tell where YOU got the information. A reliable sourc e or another one of those stories passed on from ear to ear!

[cb101]

Afraid it's an ear to ear - there seems a distinct shortage of reliable sources, even the papers don't seem to be in the loop as far as what's right and what's wrong. Heard already that one brit has been fined and deported. That seems a big risk to take when know one seems to be able to give the definitive answer.

[Marions]

It is true that someone has been heavily fined and deported (or did he run away>?). But believe me there are those trying to get a proper word from the Government preferab ly in wrtiting so that everyone knows what is truth. it is a tough call though. and I assure you once the truth is known, it WILL be in the media, but at the moment it is extremely difficult to find out a consistent answer from a top source. Meanwhile lots of entertainers are terrified and lots of restaurants likewise, for if they lose their income from the nights they have entertainers, then they may join the other 290 that closed down this year. Patience.

[Sandman]

Have 290 establishments really closed down this year??

[andrew4232]

why do you think 290 places have closed down if so what reasons ?

[mamachina]

I imagine the majority have closed down due to lack of custom; being too near together; prices too high etc etc. We, for two, dont go out as often as we did, and choose carefully where we do go! I think there is a lot of belt tightening going on. This does not help the charities either, and if they have to curtail the functions where they have unpaid entertainers helping to raise the amount in the coffers, can the Government fill the gap? I doubt it!
Entertainers who entertain for a living - ok I believe they should remain within the law and get work permits- but one off's of ex pats helping charities i think the charities should be able to pay a small amount for a one night licence or something on the understanding that the entertainer is not paid, and all monies made are for the good of the charity.

[Mel7348]

mamachina - Spot on.

[Marions]

Lee Hickens have come up with a good way of dealing with it, but would anyone listen to him? Listening does not seem to be part of the game. And the 290 restaurants closed down was stated in the Turkish press, and yes, everyone loses. The restaurants, the workers who become jobless, the government that loses taxes etc, etc and everyone then gets a huge headache.
questions are still being asked (no answers yet) and there is hope that something is sorted. It is a bit much when one purportedly cannot even do a freebie DJ programme on any radio or TV station!
It is a mind boggling, hair pullin g, going-grey-overnight, worrying, situation which need not be. Charity is charity, love is love, caring is caring, compassion is compassion, and yet these are all being trampled on to no apparent good end.
let's hope this is just a huge misunderstanding caused through misinterpretation. (oops, was that another pig flew by the window???)

[jimm127]

Marion
You say that you cannot do a freebie on the radio, but the DJ Mike shopw and Soul Train shows still seem to be on BRT!!

[cb101]

How is Lee Hickens going to deal with it, we would all be interested to know. Also should the BRS not be trying to help as they are a voluntary organisation does this not curtail their work as well along with 112, Tulips, NCCT and anything else that anyone does for free. Maybe the powers that be have local people all ready to step into these big shoes and help raise the millions of lira the expat community have raised over the years. They are after all very big shoes to fill.

[mamachina]

The BRS is a registered Society/Club, not a charitable society - ok small difference but subtle. They make DONATIONS to charities, deciding yearly which charity/ies they will donate to. The committee are volunteers, eg unpaid. Entertainers at their functions are usually paid, (and have a work permit if ex-pats) though occasionally some work for free, with a meal thrown it - I expect this also will have to change!! The RBL is I gather now a registered charity with unpaid committee and workers, so again, I imagine will be able to continue having functions to raise money for itself - but if using unpaid ex-pat entertainers will have to inform the District Office as is requested.
This all came up a year or so ago, but seems to have raised its ugly head again, maybe there will be a U turn!!!!????? LoL Hopefully someone somewhen will actually go into print with an easily understood and simple translation of the actual Laws/Rules, or is that too much to ask?

[cb101]

As Jimm127 says " you say you cannot do a freebie on the radio" where has that come from is that a reliable source or another one of those stories passed on from ear to ear?

[Marions]

There is a lot of informationl which has come from the government in answer to questions put to the ministry of Labour, and there are more questions that have gone back to the Ministry to get further clarification.
One must also accept that it could be a case of 'lost in translation' although I fear it might not be.
as to Lee Hickens idea I am sure he will share it, but there is much to be sorted before anything further is done.
There are now several sources trying to find answers, and as rightly said, something needs to go into print, but as yet nothing is firm enough or authoritative enough. Hopefully the next few days MIGHT reveal what is truth, what is ear to ear and what is misunderstood. i did say 'hopefully'.
As to BRS I am sure they feel a responsibility to share government decisions, when they know them, but they are not a fund raising body, nor do they employ anyone. Each charity is trying to find their way through it. If an event is being done for free, and the Belediye gives permission and the charity notifies the government, then all is well - but this paper work must be done. If an dfentertainer is seeking money that is a different thing altogether, and they are not allowed to sing for their supper unless they have permission./ authoritisation. Not at all clear, but..... I am sure some sense will come along soon. (Well, maybe not 'sure' but certainly 'hopeful'.

[Art]

This is a big issue which affects anyone fund raising for charities.The government have stated there is no such thing as working for nothing and anyone doing this is working illegally.So those who raise money at charity stalls and entertainment events without permission from the charity and the government could be prosecuted and fined.

As fund raisers ourselves my wife and I together with some of those involved with the Esentepe Fun Run have suspended all fund raising activity until we get assurance that we are operating legally.

This is a very sad reflection on the attitude of this government towards genuine fund raisers who do so much to help so many.

[cb101]

Totally agree with you ART if this is what the government think to all the fund raising that has been done. How are they going to fill the gap now fund raising has stopped or maybe they have not thought that far ahead yet!!
If Marion is correct then it is not only fundraising that stops it is anything that you do for free be it a DJ on a radio or TV. if you work for free you must stop or get a work permit. Is it difficult to get a work permit? Marion you must be able to help answer this one as someone who writes for a newspaper.

[Marions]

believe me, I am trying to get proper answers for you all . Only today I had someone phone to ask about running Bingo nights for charity. I know only the answers that were given by the Department of Labour and these are being double checked. As soon as I know that is 'absolute truth' I will post here and Cyprus Star will be running what they can to inform the public of exactly how it is.
Unfortunately there never seems to be any straight forward answer to anyof these questions. I will sortr through what I have and meanwhile have double checked with the media group as to what they have as up to date, and will try to post some proper answers here tomorrow or the next day. Still waiting for some questions to be answered, and I know there are many questions from many sources. People are frightened to do charitable works - which seems crazy and I have been told form one source this is to stop the people who go around collecting for charities outside supermarkets etc who are not local registered charities. Don't know how true it is, but even if it is, there are obviously ends that need tying up.
one thing I do know is that every function I have attended recently where the event has been opened by a minister, the message is always the same 'You are our bbrotherss. We welcome you here. You are one of us. we hope to live alongside you for years to come. We have a long history together. We have much in common. we value you here! etc etc, so I repeat what I said before, that I hope this is something that has got 'lost in translation'. although I know that heavy fines have been levied on some entertainers already, so maybe my heart and head are full of hope rather than reality.
What a mess. But I can assure you that if and when I have something positive to share, I WILL share it. Just wish that someone in high authority would speak.

[Marions]

Just to let you know that Cyprus Star will be carrying some info on Friday which has been compiled with the help of a Legal Adv isor to Star Media group. The artic le gives answers gleaned so far, but it is appreciated that there are further questions to be answered. On e in particular which concerns the 65 plus group working without apermit is not yet answered as the person in question is on holiday! seems strange there is no filing system which others can delve into, and seems strange to some that there is no law number to which one can be referred. But this is Cyprus.
There is also talk of a working party to maybe be formed to talk with the government to see if some adjustments might be made to make life easier, but.... that is in the future.

But one thing is for sure, the charity workers are protected and for entertainers a little more complicated, but one very encouraging styatement is "charity organisations should not be subjecvt to penalties if they follow the procedures. So, in the classic words of old time London newspaper v endors 'Read all about it!"

If anyone has any questions please feel free to e mail me privately.

And also as they say ;'Watch this space!

[Scoobydoo]

Whilst I agree with most of what mammachina said in msg 6 there is one aspect that I do not agree with (sorry Ann), and that is the 'permission' should be FREE if all the entertainment is for FREE on order to help raise funds for a registered charity.

Why should the government earn money out of an evenings FREE entertainment for a charitable cause by charging for permission?

If an entertainer is working for free at a charitable event then the entertainer should be able to get a 'permission' to perform via the charity this will allow both the government and the charity to know fully aware of what is being held and where.

Anyway, we can all speculate but until we hear the full story (if ever), until then we will continue to be on hold with our fundraising as I for one cannot risk these type of fines, deportation or anything else for that matter.

[mamachina]

Scooby doo - I was not meaning entertainers that entertain for charity - but there are some ex-pat entertainers here who do it for a "living" - not just charitable events. They should stay within the law and have some sort of permit - Im no minister so wouldnt presume to say what kind. But certainly I think charitable entertainers should be able to entertain without paying for a permit - with just the charity paying a NOMINAL fee to the government. Personal viewpoint only.

Incidentally got some news about the over 65 rumours - there is no strict rule/regulation, its at the discretion of the D L Officer - BUT if someone over 65 wishes to work for up to 17 hours a week they can discuss it with their local District Labour Office who can say yea or nay. They are more likely to say yea if there is no cypriot available to do that work!! I am talking about a permanent job - like painting,decorating, DJing etc, not entertaining!! That is a seperate issue. It was explained that the Labour Offices will be tolerant if there are limited and deserving applications and that they will be more strict if numbers go up!